The Medic Rule as it relates to the GSRP v3.02

[darkman]

;D

Ok...here we go. This will be an open discussion concerning "The Medic Rule" as it is stated in GSRP v3.02. I'll start us out...

Here's the original script:

MEDIC:

Able to heal players on the field. They must reach the player within one minute, wipe the paint from the player and write down the player's ID badge number on their Bandage Card. At this point, the player is again a live player and can resume play. HEAD SHOTS are NOT able to be healed! A head shot means you're eliminated, no matter what - this is specific for daytime play. All hits are fatal at night! Medics do not work at night.

What's been left out:
1. If you are hit and call for a medic, you may not continue to play.
(You cannot continue shooting or calling positions)
2. If you are barrel tagged you cannot be healed.
3. If you are blown up, you cannot be healed.
4. If you are eliminated via some game specific prop or other game specific instrument, you cannot be healed.
5. A medic cannot heal him/herself.
6. You cannot bunker a "wounded" player. (this is unsportsmanlike and WILL get you a judge punch. If you have to totally eliminate the player at close range, barrel tag them.)

7. You are not neutral when calling for a medic



Let's start the discussion shall we?

I am a believer that scenario ball is a game created to give the player choices. This isn't rocket science, good old fashioned common sense prevails in decision making during the event.

Calling for a medic is a choice. You got a quick choice to make, you got 60 seconds for it to work or you're out anyway. You can:

1. Call for a medic
2. Call yourself out

Pretty basic here.
If I'm in the open and get hit...calling for a medic not only is going to get the medic shot, but me shot again as well. In order to avoid this..I call myself out. Why? I'm in the open, I am not neutral, and whoever shot me the first time, obviously has another clear shot at me. I'll opt to avoid the pain...I'm out.



Now if I'm popping in and out of cover, and get hit, I would opt to call a medic. I'm protected by the bunker/tree/whatever and have cover from incoming fire. There's a much better chance the medic will come to me and neither of us will get pounded. Pretty basic stuff here.



Now...if I ever had second thoughts after I call for a medic, or my cover becomes compromised... I can always call myself out and leave in a hasty fashion. Yup..might take an extra ball or two or more during the exodus...but if I'd have called myself out in the first place...I wouldn't be in this predicament.
By CHOICE..I put myself into that situation.



I will THOROUGHLY explain this rule at the player's orientation before every game.

So that's my stance. I am against the idea of "dumbing the game down" . What's your P.O.V. ?

[donutz]

i agree, calling the medic to get you while you are in the open is irresponsable.
why get two people shot when you can escape with one.
then again, if i were a medic, and had an open player calling out towards me, id just tell him to call him self out lol.

[Animal]

I know that if I was in the open and got hit.
I take the walk .

I would be right bake !!!!!!

XOXO

[clearush]

I still think there is much opportunity for abusing "shoot at the wounded player till you hit him in the head" for players that don't head hunt medics.

At what point does shooting at the wonded player calling for a medic become overshooting if we can't hit them in the head??

[Animal]

Who to say it not a ploy for the players team that it getting hit ?
;D ;D

[woodrow]

Having a field myself and dealing with this quite often, it is my opinion that the wounded player should just call himself out if he is getting lit up. It is paintball, the objective is for the opposing player is to eliminate him. If he is trying to be healed and the opposing player still has a shot on him, and is shooting him, he is doing what he is supposed to. If the wounded player doesn't want the shots, he should call out.

Another issue with wounded players and the medic is that players need to understand they must stay where they were wounded. To many times I see a player call for a medic while they are moving to cover.

[darkman]

Clearush,
Let's look at this.
[glow=red,2,300]I still think there is much opportunity for abusing "shoot at the wounded player till you hit him in the head" for players that don't head hunt medics.[/glow]

If you are standing in the open and are aware these rules are in effect, then you should realize that you are prolly gonna take a few more.

In a "non-neutral" environment one has to think about what they're doing. As animal mentioned, and He and I have both seen this done, using a wounded player to gain a tactical advantage. While folks are trying to take him out, his team is moving to attain better angles of fire while the other team is trying to get that headshot. It works well. But that doesn't address your concern...

We hope that through education of the rules, and stressing the consequences for what I'll call foolhardy acts, players will learn when to and when not to call for a medic. As I stated before, hit in the open? Walk. Hit in a bunker? give it a try.
Secondly, The folks who ref my event are not going to allow someone to get pounded relentlessly. Are they going to be able to cover all medic situations onfield? No. But it is up to the players to take on the responsibility to safeguard themselves and each other.

I have found that when I get the drop on someone who is calling for a medic, one ball, headshot or not should be enough to let them know, "I've got a bead on you." and they call themselves out. (Usually) Plus remember, unlike events that utilize the "Neutral" rule, your time is limited. In a "non-neutral" event, the medic has one minute to reach and heal you.
The longer you stay in harms way, the more apt you are to get shot again. Plus, we've also seen players standing mid field blocking fire lanes because they were "neutral and calling for a medic." Even shots past their ears to get them to move would only result in them hollering they were neutral.

[glow=red,2,300]At what point does shooting at the wounded player calling for a medic become overshooting if we can't hit them in the head??[/glow]

When you raise your hand and call yourself out, all firing should stop. From the time the first ball hits you, there could be 12 more in the air. REMEMBER! With guns shooting at 13bps, in most cases you're going to get hit more than once anyways. Medic or not 4 or 5 guns pointed your way..with a one or two second burst will yield roughly 40 to 65 rounds headed your way. Figure reaction time from hand raised to off trigger, approx 1 second. That's 30 to 45 more still headed your way.

A ref on the scene will not allow a player calling for a medic to get relentlessly pummelled. All of our refs are especially protective of the kids. They will call you out and if necessary, use their body like a shield to stop the extra rounds. Yes, that is how all of the refs we use in these events are trained, and they will, (and have), execute if necessary. But don't expect them to be hovering over the wounded player in every circumstance. That's just not feasible. Your own common sense is the best tool you have to prevent you from being overshot.

Darkman out

[darkman]

Good point Woodrow. Refs at our events are schooled to the 3 step rule. If you are runnig and you get hit, you've got 3 strides to stop.(a slide at the end of 3 steps is acceptable, but no crawling from that point.) Walking, stop immediately. Behind a bunker, stay there.

[clearush]

Yeah I understand, Animal's tactic such as taking one for the team type of distraction.

As long as it's really stressed at player orientation (since we know everyone reads the rules thouroughly before game time) I've seen to many player tantrums over extra shots when reffing.

Most of the Viper game players that you will get are used to being neutral until healed, but again many are experianced players and can adjust to the GRSP rule as long as they are reminded.

As far as I know there is a "resonable amount of time" limit on getting a medic on the neutral player games I've reffed and played usualy around 1 min or less if a medic isn't in sight.

I have no real issue either way, both ways seem to work well in the games I've seen them used in. As long as the producer feels it is safe for game play, I'm good.

[trips]

You know here is the funny part....

The most experienced, educated, and seasoned veteran of scenario play will often take all the above, place neatly and carefully into a box, seal it like it is going for an oversea trip and place it in the trunk of their car and completely forget about all the knowledge and experience at game on.

I know this because it has happend to me, and as a Ultimate Judge on a national circuit I witnessed it first hand from some of the best players of this era in the sport.

I want to recount to you all a specific instance that I was part of in the Northeast at a 26 hr event that I was Ultimate for....

The scene: A very well known player from the N.E. is making a mad dash across a large open piece of ground towards strategically placed bunkers about 35 yards from the woodline...about 10 yards out from the bunker he gets lit up, no head shot, but his chest and legs looks like he was in a bad accident at the Shermann Williams paint factory, he stops and calls for a medic, which was still in the woodline.
I am standing about 10 feet from the player, the following is a paraphrased (<---Big word means pretty much what he said and I said ) version of the conversation between he and I.

Player: MEDIC!!!

Trips: You got one minute for him to get to you.

Player: MEDIC!!!! Damn they are still shooting at me.

Trips: Yes... Yes they are.

Player: MEDIC!!!!!! Ow Ow Ow Ow MEDIC!!!!!!!

Trips: About 30 seconds for him to get to you Player, you sure you don't want to just call yourself out? I dont think he is coming to you.

Player: Why? MEDIC!!!!!!!!!! Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow

Trips: Because everytime you call for Medic he seems to be giving you the finger...about 15 seconds for him to get to you now.

Player: Hit!!! That guy sucks as a medic!

Trips: (I step in front of the player and call him out)
Not really...he is still alive and he is your groups only medic...right?

Player: Yeah he is... (laughs as he socks marker) I guess I am kinda out here in the wide open, huh?

Trips: Yea... just a little bit ...


So for about 45 seconds the player took hits waiting for a medic that realized "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" to borrow a cheesy line from an old movie and was not going to come out and die. The player, in the heat of the minute, did not consider his own location, relevant to the lifespan of the medic.

Most new players will forget there are even medics in the game and call themselves upon the first impacts. The veteran player will call for the medic 90% of the time.
The rules are for all the players, New folks and veterans alike.

I can promise that we will explain the rule concerning medics as best we can at orientation, but the GSRP is about as clear as it can be, complete with examples and scenarios involving medics.

[seven]

As a Ref and Player, I think all players should read the rules. As a player, If I shoot you and you call for a medic, I'm going to keep shooting you until you take the walk or I hit you in the head. As a ref. If you call for a medic and you are in the open, I'll watch you get shot until I think your being overshot and then I'll call you out, for your safety. You, as a player should be smart enough, not to put yourself (and your medic)in a position to get hurt. Thats what I think.. p.s. Sorry If I shot you alot while I was trying to get a head shot and you were calling for a medic ......... out in the open.

[papatheif]

There is also the consideration that some of use will stop shooting, in hopes that the medic will come out to assist and then attempt to shoot around/through to get at the medic.

[tom]

last time i was a medic i got shot up all day, im just going to be a regular player most likely

[hazmat]

I've seen this a lot and it needs to be explained to the players. Once you call yourself out you cannot call for Medic. You are out.

[Mr. Pants]

I am one to stop shooting the hit player. well sometime I stop...but only if there is a medic running up to heal the player...then I shoot the medic >